tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post4821112916266897894..comments2023-07-10T17:01:53.149+01:00Comments on Pupillage and How to Get It.: BVC ReduxSMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06066695497843105646noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-85594692717936726232007-12-04T12:54:00.000+00:002007-12-04T12:54:00.000+00:00In response to the above post: Last year a fellow ...In response to the above post: <BR/><BR/>Last year a fellow BVC student, decided to pursue a career as a solicitor and after obtaining a training contract, starting in late 2007/ early 2008- I'm not sure which, was told that if he completed the QLTT (which is around £300-£400 I think) he would be eligible to undertake his training contract- subject to approval and some additional training from the firm. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately I do not know how this turned out as he then obtained a pupillage and cancelled the training contract. I hope this may provide some assistance. <BR/><BR/>P.S. Thanks to Simon Myerson for the time and effort he takes in producing the very helpful website and blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-9228991177336625992007-11-03T17:20:00.000+00:002007-11-03T17:20:00.000+00:00Hello,I understand my query might not be very rele...Hello,<BR/><BR/>I understand my query might not be very relevant here but I could not find another place to put it down.<BR/><BR/>I am a third year law undergraduate and I'm planning on doing the BVC next year starting Sep 2008. I am an international student on a 2.1 with alot of good mooting and debating experience but not much mini-pupillages. I understand that it might be difficult for me to get a pupillage after my bar but it's worth a try. My main aim is (or was) to go back to my home country and practice as a Barrister although due to the political instability there i think it would be rather difficult to get off to a flying start. Yes I'm reconsidering my options.<BR/><BR/>I am applying for vacation placements and training contracts to commence in September 2010 (as dates for a 2009 start have passed and I did not apply because I always wanted to goto the bar, don't get me wrong I still want to and this is why I am in a complicated situation). I am certain that I will end up with a training contract hence LPC fees etc paid, but that LPC will begin in Sep 2009. I know i could fund the LPC myself and still be able to secure a contract for 2009 but I dont want to do that.<BR/><BR/>Back home LPC's don't mean much and being a Barrister is everything. Basically you are not a good lawyer if you haven't received a call from Lincoln's Inn. So what i want to do is this 'BE SAFE'.<BR/><BR/>After graduation, I want to do a vacation placement. While already enrolled for the BVC i want to start the course in Sep 2008. If at this point i get an offer for a training contract I will still finish my Bar and start the LPC next year i.e. Sep 2009 and start working in 2010 as a solicitor.<BR/><BR/>After gaining the 2 year experience if i decide to go back home I can always utilize my Bar at Law there. Otherwise I could stay here and work as a solicitor.<BR/><BR/>I still want to attend interviews if i get any for pupillage and if I am able to secure one I shall not go ahead with the LPC.<BR/><BR/>My query : Is there any technicality which stops me from finishing the BVC by 2009 and starting the LPC in 2009?<BR/><BR/>My point : I want to stay safe, be able to get some legal experience in the UK and be able to go back home and practice as a Barrister if I want to ( which I doubt at the moment as I can not see my self as a member of a Bar Council whose website has this section http://www.sindhbarcouncil.com/joke.php...And may i refer your attention to joke number 3)<BR/><BR/>Thankyou!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-9670694757648499552007-09-30T14:16:00.000+01:002007-09-30T14:16:00.000+01:00Thanks! I don't think you should give up and I cer...Thanks! I don't think you should give up and I certainly agree that determination can get you a very long way. Some mini-pupillages are easier to obtain than others and it's a bit difficult to know what your represent without more. <BR/><BR/>You are wrong that you have nothing going for you - a previous career which brought success is hardly nothing. As to the exams - well if you are not bright enough it will find you out, but results (see previous posts) do not always reflect capability. Good luck.SMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06066695497843105646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-37647255714253479072007-09-25T11:38:00.000+01:002007-09-25T11:38:00.000+01:00Crikey Moses. Here am I, no degree, left school a...Crikey Moses. Here am I, no degree, left school at 16 and joined the army, worked my butt off to get a professional qualification, (compare paralegal to barrister to see just how high up in my field I am), have 20 years experience being darn good at my job, and then at the tender age of 40, yes, read it and weep, decided that the law was for me.<BR/><BR/>Have taken ILEX courses and passed (only passed mind) had a wealth of court experience voluntarily, and then have now passed the first year of the GDL. (Only passed mind, because its not easy juggling a full time job and distance learning a new subject)<BR/><BR/>Now I am determined to be a barrister and head down and charging forward. I have secured 4 mini pupillages, probably based on my experiences rather than my O level pass in woodwork, and am still surging ahead oblivious to the difficulties, because nothing in life worth having is easy, and brute force and determination will get me there. Never been to Oxford but have been on a day trip to Cambridge. I must add that to my cv.<BR/><BR/>My only slight concern is, am i one of the students on the course that obviously will never make it and should give up now, or shall I invest my £12,000 wisely on the bvc and keep going? <BR/><BR/>By the discussions I have nothing going for me at all. My dad was a policeman, I have no degree, I am old at 45, and I have only ever 'passed' exams.<BR/><BR/>But 4 mini-pupillages? Have they seen something in me that this discussion ignores, or are they having a laugh at my expense?<BR/><BR/>Brilliant site by the way. Discouraged? No. Still up for the challenge? Yes. Deluded? I don't think so, but maybe thats because I am stupid anyway and can't see it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-18285822416364837812007-08-14T17:07:00.000+01:002007-08-14T17:07:00.000+01:00""The facts of the matter are if you are over 25 a...""The facts of the matter are if you are over 25 and have anything less than a 2:1 the odds are that you will not make it to the bar and you would be better off saving your money and doing the LPC"<BR/><BR/>I am living proof that that is not the case. I have a non-Oxbridge 2.2, the additional detriment of turning 29 very shortly (I'm weeping as i type...) and yet I shall complete my pupillage later this month."<BR/><BR/>Amy - Without wishing to be pernickety, you are not living proof that this is not the case - you are living proof that it is possible to succeed with a 2.2 when over the age of 25...the statement remains correct, though personally I wouldn't see the age of the applicant as such an important factor, especially where an applicant is still in his/her twenties. The odds are against anyone, let alone somebody with a 2.2! Applicants with a non-Oxbridge 2.2 are statistically very unlikely to secure pupillage. However obviously there must be the possibility of success or it wouldn't be a question of odds but rather of certainty...<BR/><BR/>Congratulations Peter!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-73071083532275288752007-08-02T01:36:00.000+01:002007-08-02T01:36:00.000+01:00Firstly, a rather belated response to Anonymous's ...Firstly, a rather belated response to Anonymous's initial point: <BR/><BR/>"The facts of the matter are if you are over 25 and have anything less than a 2:1 the odds are that you will not make it to the bar and you would be better off saving your money and doing the LPC"<BR/><BR/>I am living proof that that is not the case. I have a non-Oxbridge 2.2, the additional detriment of turning 29 very shortly (I'm weeping as i type...) and yet I shall complete my pupillage later this month.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous, if you do choose to pursue pupillage, I wish you the very best of luck, I remember how incredibly disheartening the whole process is.<BR/><BR/>Secondly: Simon, thank you for encouraging debate on these issues. I only recently discovered your blog, and have been recommending it to people I know who are looking for pupillage as well as those who care about the future of the Bar.<BR/><BR/>As to the suggestions of improvements which can be made, I am a firm believer that there should be some greater form of selection for those applying for the BVC. It would be easy enough I'm sure for ICSL et al to set up an online aptitude test which could be administered with a few button clicks, and could prove invaluable. <BR/><BR/>The current lack of any apparent filter (other than financial means, of course...) for those wishing to do the BVC means that there is a great variation in ability on the course, and I feel that this is unfair both to those with ability and those with less; those with ability are not challenged as much as they could be because the teaching will be to the lowest common denominator, and those with less ability are likely to be throwing their money into a big black hole.<BR/><BR/>As for pupillage applications, OLPAS needs to go. I agree with the suggestion that a system whereby a covering letter and CV could be sent would be far fairer. Currently - and this is from the perspective of someone who was applying for pupillage after having worked for several years - the system seems geared very much towards new graduates and it is quite challenging to convey non-academic experiences. I accept that there are the 'work' boxes, but try summing up 5 years' experience in 150 words or whatever the limit is. <BR/><BR/>Simon, I share your dislike of competencies; for starters, they'd need to be agreed. In chambers, this would be one thing. If the BSB got involved (as perhaps they should if this route was followed), I can only imagine the discussions that would occur as to which competencies make a good barrister. And that's without even starting to gauge different competencies for criminal, family, chancery, etc.<BR/><BR/>If a set wishes to use a competency based selection system, that is entirely up to them. I think the BSB needs to try and ensure that ALL selection processes used are fair and transparent - I am not convinced that OLPAS does this.<BR/><BR/>I also agree with one of the previos suggestions that in an ideal world candidates for pupillage would be selected on the basis of something akin to the recruitment processes used by big businesses and the public sector; i.e. a range of tasks over a morning, a whole day, or whatever. I say this as someone who has been involved in an awful lot of recruitment using these sorts of methods, and it is very very effective. However, it is also incredibly time-consuming - a full day of tests & interviews run by 4 people can only accommodate 6 candidates at a time - and therefore it seems highly unlikely that the Bar will be changing to that any time soon. In the meantime, we have to trust that the people doing the choosing are pretty bloody expert themselves and can spot a good 'un when they see one. <BR/><BR/>Congratulations to all of you who have been successful in getting pupillage this time round. For those who weren't, persevere if you're so minded, you just might get there...<BR/><BR/>Amy.pandamoaniumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15643657072928684739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-51656254198401633552007-08-02T01:35:00.000+01:002007-08-02T01:35:00.000+01:00Hello again. This may not be the right place to po...Hello again. This may not be the right place to post this, but at least people reading this thread and the previous BVC debate thread should have some idea who I am, and they may therefore have some context to my post. I apologise yet again for its length.<BR/><BR/>At the time of writing my previous posts on these threads, I had not secured a pupillage. I am happy to report that this has now changed.<BR/><BR/>I draw three lessons from my own case. These are points that Simon is more than welcome to make / recycle elsewhere on his excellent site, if he deems them worthy. I am happy to be used as an example of someone who got lucky!<BR/><BR/>1) When they say that you only need one chambers, they are not wrong!<BR/>I suffered my fair share of rejections. Over two years, I applied to 22 different chambers (5 of them twice). The first year, I did not get a single interview. This year, only 1 out of 15 sets offered me a 1st-round interview. This was one of the sets to which I applied twice, and which had therefore given me a straight rejection the previous year. This single 1st-round interview led to a 2nd-round, which led to an offer. So don't lose hope too soon!<BR/><BR/>2) Mini-pupillages matter!<BR/>Presumably, the other 14 chambers to which I applied this year didn't think my CV was good enough even to merit a 1st-round interview. So what happened with number 15? It was one of the places where I had done a mini. Obviously, they must have been impressed by me at that mini. This got me that 1st interview, even if my CV was no more than adequate.<BR/><BR/>So, boys and girls, go wild: apply for lots of minis. Especially those at sets which take them seriously (the one that did it for me was not formally assessed, but nor was it one that was dished out randomly...). I know that applying for lots of minis is more time-consuming than the OLPAS form itself, but it's probably worth it! Oh yeah, and the experience might be useful and/or interesting too, you never know. The barristers you meet might even turn out to be nice people!<BR/><BR/>3) Troubled Barrister is right: "merit", as far as pupillage is concerned, is largely subjective. Views DO differ on what is a "good enough" CV.<BR/>This doesn't mean that you're ok if your CV is no good at all. Nor does this mean that you shouldn't try to stand out, as difficult as that is. Of course practical experience, FRU work etc, is invaluable too. But it does mean that if you think you might well be good enough, there is a chance that you might be able to persuade a panel somewhere...<BR/><BR/>I hope that my platitudes help someone out there. Best of luck to you all. God knows we all need it. There's no denying that it is tough, especially if you are non-oxbridge (though I still think that a non-oxbridge 1st generally trumps an oxbridge 2:1). But if you have a good degree, determination and belief in your own ability, then it's worth a shot (or 5). Yes, rejection hurts. And the sceptics will call you (as I have been called by another poster on this blog) an "arrogant prima donna". But don't let any of that put you off. After all, how many successful barristers do you know who are not supremely confident in their own ability? If you don't believe in yourself, how are you going to convince a pupillage committee (or a client / judge)?<BR/><BR/>PeterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-73688687233335686432007-07-29T16:37:00.000+01:002007-07-29T16:37:00.000+01:00Glad you are both having a laugh at my expense - h...Glad you are both having a laugh at my expense - how truly professional of you both.<BR/>Thanks but no thanks for the platitudes and the offer of worn conventional conservative ( big and small C)and frankly rather tired advice.<BR/>After all this time, it is all about me, because I'm fed up. And I've wasted 6 years of my life as it is.<BR/>And as to the risk of putting people off coming to the bar if they read this comment then I would urge them not to do it; the vast majority will end up having their hopes repeatedly dashed by some faceless, mysterious committee who think your A levels just dont cut the mustard ( if thats the case whats the point of a degree) who then refuse to give an explanation for their selections.<BR/> I'd suggest you take a troll, randomly through any sets listed in OLPAS, survey the last 20 people to join chambers and count the numbers of non oxbridge graduates therein; you'll be lucky if you see more than one.This reinforces the point about a lack of diversity.<BR/>Doubtless you will be relieved that this is my last post. I've given up on the Bar for the rotten profession that it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-57892997347836963772007-07-29T14:43:00.000+01:002007-07-29T14:43:00.000+01:00Ha ha yes Luke dont let anger consume you that way...Ha ha yes Luke dont let anger consume you that way leads to the Dark side.Troubled barristerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11996051130590581216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-109740669324890622007-07-28T23:05:00.000+01:002007-07-28T23:05:00.000+01:00Apart from your inability to express yourself in a...Apart from your inability to express yourself in a way that wins people over (which may provide you with a clue as to why things have not gone the way you wanted) I do not think we are so far apart on the proposals - although I don't agree with pupillage before the BVC. <BR/><BR/>But your last comment is a non sequitur. Your failure to get pupillage condemns no one and makes nothing obvious. Nor has anyone assumed anything about you - although you have made some fairly personal attacks behind a veil of anonymity which is hardly behaviour which comes particularly impressively from a barrister - is it? <BR/><BR/>So let me assist with some feedback. You are too prone to let your anger talk. You don't recognise and seem emotionally unable to accept help when offered. If you see the 'Pause for Thought' post you will see why I think this is relevant to being a Barrister. You are far too ready to be unpleasant to people who have given you no reason to be - and this in a profession where it is unacceptable to be unpleasant to people who have given you every reason to be. All in all the impression conveyed is of someone who believes that they have an entitlement to pupillage and is incapable of seeing why that might not be so. <BR/><BR/>You are clearly fairly bright and I have no reason to believe you could not do the job. But to me you lack the willingness to learn and assimilate new information that characterises those who have a bright future ahead of them. You also lack the ability to examine your own conduct and behaviour in order to learn what is required. That, too, is a characteristic of those bound for the top. <BR/><BR/>It is important to make this clear for two reasons. First, you are an adult and the freedom to be rude and abusive is not unlimited. You should be able to take it if you are dishing it out. Your comments to those who have succeeded where you have failed and based on a need to make yourself feel better. That is an act best performed in private - with the lights out...<BR/><BR/>Secondly, I want people to understand that debate means just that. I see no reason why I should allow you to rudely make bad points. There is a risk that you might persuade someone who would otherwise go on to a fulfilled career as a Barrister. I would be upset were that to happen. <BR/><BR/>I repeat, if you want to email me and talk sensibly then I am willing to try and help. But if you can't put your anger and 'all about me' attitude to bed it will be a waste of time. It is up to you.SMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06066695497843105646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-33181269872979434782007-07-28T09:46:00.000+01:002007-07-28T09:46:00.000+01:00... What on earth is the point of looking at elder...... What on earth is the point of looking at elderly statistics concerning pupillage??To make yourself feel better? I think not. Statistics merely make for useful spin, and in the case of the 2004 figures freakish reading. The trend is still heavily biased toward oxbridge; your assessment is far from objective - you have made the assupmtion that I am from an ex poly; I am not. Further you had only one cycle of application, so please dont patronise me with sob stories about harrassment from the upper echelons of your inn/ the bar. You are not unique in this respect. The fact that you have pupillage means that you believe that you are indeed best placed to make an"objective assessment of my situation". You are not, so please dont even try.Its my party, and I'll cry if I want to. <BR/>Angry? Damn right. Chambers feedback is nothing short of appaulling " excellent standard of applicant this year" is a bog standard phrase trotted out even after interview and means absolutely nothing.<BR/>Want to sort the situation out? Only people who have pupillage should undertake the BVC; pupillage should be secured through an assessment weekend/day; the bar should set the assessment criteria with chambers bieng allowed to tweak the criteria to suit their specialities.This would ultimately mean some of the smaller and lets face it shittier providers would have to close and people like me, where two first degrees and a very competent grade plus a major scholarship from my Inn apparently count for absolutely nothing, would not have wasted 6 years of their lives. Its obvious that its not what you know, but who you know in this game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-85880185895288749072007-07-27T22:00:00.000+01:002007-07-27T22:00:00.000+01:00Simon. :Some eminently sensible suggestions. I al...Simon. :<BR/><BR/>Some eminently sensible suggestions. I also agree that "Distance Travelled" should be borne in mind by Chambers since it can show evidence not only of natural intellectual ability but also of drive, motivation and determination to succeed against the odds. <BR/><BR/>Anon 1:<BR/><BR/>You are right in that the BVC needs to be made more difficult. The standard required to pass is risible. At one point, we were invited to "mark" genuine scripts from last year's candidates so that we could get a feel for the level required of us. The paper which achieved a grade of Competent would have embarrassed a GCSE student. Not only does this devalue the course, but it compels the BVC to be taught at the level of the "lowest common denominator" meaning that stronger candidates (i.e. the ones who will actually enter the profession) learn little or nothing that they could not have taught themselves in the library. That this farce of a year is accompanied by a £12,000 price tag is positively offensive.<BR/><BR/>As to your other suggestions, I know that Middle currently operates a system whereby the "prestige" of the award is determined by merit but the monetary value is means-tested. I believe that the other Inns should follow suit, if they do not do so already. More first-round interviews might be nice in theory, but we must appreciate that barristers are very busy self-employed practitioners and cannot afford to interview as many candidates as we might like.<BR/><BR/>Angry Anon:<BR/><BR/>As a matter of interest, were you rejected at interview or on paper? <BR/><BR/>Anya's statistics are interesting and worth reading. <BR/><BR/>You mention that your BVC is about to go stale. Presumably you've applied over four or five cycles to c. 100+ sets? Did any give you any feedback?<BR/><BR/>Also, I think Simon is right in that a 2:1 from a good Uni is pretty commonplace and a VC is nothing special as a majority of BVC students will get one. With some exceptions (notably the BCL) I've noticed that people with Masters aren't necessarily brighter than those with only an undergraduate degree but simply stayed for Uni at longer. I don't see how a second degree would add much value. Sorry for not being of much "practical help"! <BR/><BR/>Recent BVC GraduateAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-67016422868115640882007-07-27T20:21:00.000+01:002007-07-27T20:21:00.000+01:00Angry Anonymous, that I have pupillage does not me...Angry Anonymous, that I have pupillage does not mean that I am unable to make an objective assessment of your attitude problem. As I have previously said, I did not get pupillage first time. Furthermore I do not fit into the "old boys' network" any better than you, being 1. state school educated 2. non-white 3. female. I have experienced sexual harassment from drunk benchers at my Inn, as well as witnessing evident discomfort in conversation with a few white barristers on the subject of my ethnic origin. However this is in my view inevitable in a profession that is dominated IN ITS UPPER ECHELONS by upper crust white men. The point is that the Bar IS from my experience doing its best to change, and it is going to take decades to filter through to the upper echelons. Pupillage selection committees are so very aware of the Bar's previous prejudices. Anecdotal evidence is pretty inconclusive, and the attitude of aged benchers divorced from the reality of selection for pupillage in 2007 means nothing. Why not view the statistics on pupillage for 2004? It shows that there are many more ex-poly students than Oxbridge students going into pupillage: http://thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=51827<BR/><BR/>I could have told myself that I didn't get pupillage first go because of racism/sexism/classism (ignoring the fact that others of my race/sex/class had somehow managed to gain pupillage) and become bitter and twisted but instead I looked at what I needed to make myself a better candidate. I suggest you do the same rather than throwing your toys out of the pram.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-19537230812710146312007-07-27T18:04:00.000+01:002007-07-27T18:04:00.000+01:00Thank you Simon.I have e-mailed you.Regards,Anisah...Thank you Simon.<BR/><BR/>I have e-mailed you.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>AnisahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-2340056202022400172007-07-27T17:46:00.000+01:002007-07-27T17:46:00.000+01:00Anisah,If you think you can do it and particularly...Anisah,<BR/><BR/>If you think you can do it and particularly if your current employer would suport you at the Bar then go for it. If in doubt mail me your cv and we can deal with this by email. <BR/><BR/>I would go for Oxford Brookes. I don't know what push Buckingham have but Brookes is pretty well regarded (top of ex Poly league or thereabouts). Better safe than sorry. <BR/><BR/>If anyone else has views, please post here...SMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06066695497843105646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-62382403468462745922007-07-27T17:24:00.000+01:002007-07-27T17:24:00.000+01:00Sorry this is continuing from the above post. I kn...Sorry this is continuing from the above post. I know I can manage a fast track programme because I have studied the ILEX programme in one year, fast track but my main concern is studying at Buckingham University and later discover it’s highly recognised. Buckingham University is an independent university and it has many overseas students. I haven’t been able to find a barrister practicing in the UK that has graduated from Buckingham University. Do you know anyone that has studies at Buckingham?<BR/><BR/>I can’t make my decision and I’m hoping you can help me.<BR/><BR/>I look forward to hearing form you. <BR/><BR/>Thank you.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>AnisahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-48812270179354294802007-07-27T17:11:00.000+01:002007-07-27T17:11:00.000+01:00Hi Simon,Thanks. My exams went very well. I passed...Hi Simon,<BR/><BR/>Thanks. My exams went very well. I passed all the units, just got one more result to come!<BR/><BR/>Here's my question.<BR/><BR/>Well, Basically, I have been studying ILEX at college. I understand that the ILEX route will take me to the qualifying route of becoming a solicitor. However, Ideally I really want to go for the bar as I have faith and trust in myself and my ability. Although I appreciate it is very difficult, I still want to give it a go.<BR/><BR/>The problem I currently face is that I am unsure of which option to follow, i.e. which route will make me a better candidate during the pupillage process. <BR/><BR/>I have the following two options open to me:<BR/><BR/>Options 1) Attend Oxford Brookes University to study the LLB programme.(to gain entry I will have to wait one more year)<BR/>Options 2) continue studying the ILEX next level i.e. level 6 programme (higher diploma in law) and begin working in a legal firm.<BR/>Options 3) Study the LLB programme at Buckingham University in two years (can begin in sep 2007)<BR/><BR/>I really don't know what to do next, whether I should go straight onto a degree programme at university and then decide go on and study the BVC or if I should follow the ILEX route and qualify as a solicitor and then transfer to the bar.<BR/><BR/>I don’t mind going away from Oxford and studying the LLB programme at Buckingham University but whatever I do I want to ensure I am making the right option and following the right path to my desired goal.<BR/><BR/>I think I had raised a similar question some time ago but I am really confused and unsure of what to do, so any advice would be much appreciated.<BR/><BR/>Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated, Thank you very much!<BR/><BR/>P.s. Simon- I have read your thread in relation to Oxbridge students and understand the points you raise but I shall be grateful for any suggestions or advice you have in this case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-30757470138050627282007-07-27T16:53:00.000+01:002007-07-27T16:53:00.000+01:00Anisah,Hope the exams went ok. Post your question ...Anisah,<BR/><BR/>Hope the exams went ok. Post your question on this thread and we will take it form there. <BR/><BR/>TB: you owe me an email...SMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06066695497843105646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-39434464866098941902007-07-27T16:41:00.000+01:002007-07-27T16:41:00.000+01:00Hi,Simon- I am really confused and would appreciat...Hi,<BR/><BR/>Simon- I am really confused and would appreciate some advice from you please!<BR/><BR/>I have posted on the student room forum but haven’t had any help.<BR/><BR/>Please let me know where you would like me to post my problem. Basically I’m in a bit of a dilemma as to how to proceed with a career at the bar. <BR/><BR/>I look forward to hearing from you. sorry if I've posted this in the wrong place.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>Anisah<BR/><BR/>p.s. I have been catching up on this blog as I've been away concentrating on my exams. I have found a lot of useful information on here. Thank you Simon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-75127593427533641802007-07-27T14:09:00.000+01:002007-07-27T14:09:00.000+01:00Fair enough Anon 1. I suppose less international B...Fair enough Anon 1. I suppose less international BVC students who can't speak English well enough wouldn't be the end of the world. As I said though, if the pass mark is raised to a VC, then the whole structure will need to be re-jigged. It's not just splitting VC into 2 categories. It would also be unfair to expect a VC to be scored in every paper, I think. That would just make it too hard. I know some people who scored Os overall, who got competents in a couple of papers. It would be very harsh to fail them.<BR/><BR/>Not being a scholar myself, I'm not 100% sure on how the system work, but I do think that Lincoln's take means into account when deciding how much they award (for some scholarships - I couldn't tell you which ones)...<BR/><BR/>PeterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-58638237807382672012007-07-27T10:56:00.000+01:002007-07-27T10:56:00.000+01:00Anon 1Peter, you thought there may be problem for ...Anon 1<BR/><BR/>Peter, you thought there may be problem for the international students if the pass mark was raised to a VC for the BVC because of their English. I don't agree that this should prevent the bar being raised : ).<BR/><BR/>1. Most international BVC students have been willing to live half way across the world and pay huge fees to become a barrister. I believe that if the BVC was made harder then they would try harder. If English was the problem then an extra year at a language school; if intellect is the problem then, like the native English speakers, they shouldn't be able to call themselves barristers.<BR/><BR/>2. It sounds like you think the title barrister is virtually sold to international students so they can practise in their home countries. This seems an awful state of affairs - they rely on the reputation of a course in this country which actually shows little sign of competence and are unleashed on those needing a lawyer in their own country. If someone is not good enough for a VC, I would think they're unlikely to be good enough anywhere else either.<BR/><BR/>3. By raising the level of the qualification it should filter down that it actually means more to people and those from abroad that seek it will work harder and make the whole experience better for everyone. I'm sure the Inns will cope - I don't think they get that much money from the students - they often subsidise us.<BR/><BR/>On the Inns Scholarships:<BR/><BR/>1. I've heard Middle Temple take means into account as a major factor. I do not believe any of the other Inns do. The most prestigious scholarships are for the most money and tend to be given to those with great Oxbridge credentials who are normally from well off families. Whilst I think those people should receive top scholarships I think the amounts should be means tested - I have not heard of this being done at the Inns. Please correct me if I am wrong.<BR/><BR/>Simon - I think competencies are a brilliant idea. I really think all candidates should receive a basic score which they can be informed of so they can see where different Chambers think their weaknesses are. This would lessen the likelihood, not only of people being discriminated against, but of people who are not good enough being able to blame their failure on other factors and subsequently become bitter about that and the Bar in general.<BR/><BR/>Applicants are generally desperate for feedback from Chambers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-42650733513338329542007-07-27T10:47:00.000+01:002007-07-27T10:47:00.000+01:00Alex: obviously that's why I'm here.Anon: I am del...Alex: obviously that's why I'm here.<BR/><BR/>Anon: I am delighted that you have had so much advice from the Bar. Did you take any of it?SMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06066695497843105646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-50442497254915058232007-07-27T10:41:00.000+01:002007-07-27T10:41:00.000+01:00Interesting discussion – refreshing to read such f...Interesting discussion – refreshing to read such frank exchanges. As someone in a similar position to Anonymous, I know how frustrating it can be not to be able to get a pupillage. And I can see how the abuse-a-QC-possibilities associated with this blog could - after a bad day at work and several strong drinks late on a Thursday night – become embarrassing reality. But Anonymous, why are so hung up on the Oxbridge thing? Lots of barristers went to ex-polys. Enjoy the blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-57998089854811172222007-07-27T09:34:00.000+01:002007-07-27T09:34:00.000+01:00oh, make up your mind troubled barrister -from w...oh, make up your mind troubled barrister -from what I've read of your posts here, you think all BVC students believe they are owed pupillage.<BR/>As to advice, if I had a pound for all the advice I'd been given over the years about finding pupillage - which I followed - I wouldnt need to win the lottery.Somehow I dont think I need any more of the same, because, after five years of trying, I will have heard it all before.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-55687831926635888732007-07-27T06:36:00.000+01:002007-07-27T06:36:00.000+01:00Have to agree.... Simon offers advice on this blog...Have to agree.... Simon offers advice on this blog - FREE - it takes time to write and then offers an opportunity to email him for advice.<BR/><BR/>Not many lawyers, let alone Silks, offering advice /guidance / ideas...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com