tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post8067841756762054379..comments2023-07-10T17:01:53.149+01:00Comments on Pupillage and How to Get It.: News From the FrontlineSMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06066695497843105646noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-90556706554925275822007-10-14T16:29:00.000+01:002007-10-14T16:29:00.000+01:00I agree with converter, but sadly the BVC is more ...I agree with converter, but sadly the BVC is more about making money then training barristers. <BR/><BR/>As a result the idea of the BVC somehow being combined with pupillage will never happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-38744052781489693652007-10-12T21:47:00.000+01:002007-10-12T21:47:00.000+01:00Goodness me. If anyone is categorising BVC student...Goodness me. If anyone is categorising BVC students like that on the first day, they should be ashamed of themselves. <BR/><BR/>Are you not permitted to improve as the course goes along?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-91964829282514642912007-10-12T18:53:00.000+01:002007-10-12T18:53:00.000+01:00There is no purpose for the BVC if you do not want...There is no purpose for the BVC if you do not want to be a barrister. Hence, why not insist that candidates must secure a pupillage before starting the BVC. Since it seems a great deal of useful learning actually takes place during pupillage, why not alter the course and amalgamate it with pupillage? Six months could be spent in the classroom getting the basics of procedure etc, followed by a further year shadowing and eventually taking instructions. The whole thing could be wholly or partially funded by chambers, quashing worries about access. <BR/><BR/>However, providers would lose a great deal of money, so I expect this will never happen. Why do the BSB/Council seem so in ho to them?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-90087439270988881092007-10-12T12:18:00.000+01:002007-10-12T12:18:00.000+01:00I have friends on the BVC, many of whom are aware ...I have friends on the BVC, many of whom are aware of the difficult situation in which they find themselves. Some however have no idea!<BR/><BR/>Very few have pupillage and what is even more worrying is that many can't even get interviews.<BR/><BR/>80% of candidates are paying £12,000 for a course that leads to nothing more then a job as a paralegal, with perhaps a possibility of converting and being a solicitor.<BR/><BR/>People are selling their cars, taking out massive bank loans, even re-mortgaging their houses just to put themselves or their offspring through the BVC.<BR/><BR/>I would like to see the Bar Council put together some sort of formal warning outlining just how difficult things are. A copy should be posted on the BVC application site, so that people cannot later moan that they had no idea what they were getting into.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-77664013293451810922007-10-11T22:09:00.000+01:002007-10-11T22:09:00.000+01:00Simon,I think your comments and statistics seem ab...Simon,<BR/><BR/>I think your comments and statistics seem about right. The odds of coming out of the BVC with a pupillage are rather slim. On an anecdotal basis I would say about 15-20% of my coursemates have pupillage. This drops to about 10% for non-Oxbridge.<BR/><BR/>There are clearly people on the course who will never get pupillage - even with a 2.1! It is usually those people who are uninformed about the process, and about their chances. It is these people that the BVC providers are exploiting by taking on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4932746992402771668.post-39864710035507813842007-10-11T21:33:00.000+01:002007-10-11T21:33:00.000+01:00I think your post raises a number of issues; I can...I think your post raises a number of issues; I can't hope to cover all of them in 1 reply, so I'll deal with the principal ones for the time being. I'll nail my colours to the mast and admit that I'm linked to one Provider (a very good one at that) and that I've posted a number of times on your Blog. Apologies, therefore, if I repeat points I've already made.<BR/>1). The idea that (all?) BVC Providers are engaged in extortion is, in my view, offensive. As I've said before, the level of fees is driven by the demands of the Bar Council in terms of resources, the fact that the Course is a true cost course (not "subsidised" by HEFCE) and the fact that, like it or not, Tutors with real practical experience (and we have some who sit as Deputy DJ's etc.) don't come cheap. The figures in respect of BVC places versus pupillages aren't hidden and anyone with a genuine commitment to the profession should be able to carry out their own research. No Provider forces students onto its Course - in fact we turn away more than three quarters of those who apply.<BR/>2). The idea that you can spot an Outstanding student on day 1 is, in my view, outlandish and smacks of a colouring of judgment or a self-fulfilling prophecy. There are 13 Assessment points on the BVC, the overall grade of Outstanding requiring 8 awards of Oustanding in individual assessments or an aggregate of 85%. Given that many students will have no experience of the vast majority of skills / subjects taught, it would be impossible to identify an "all-rounder" at this early stage.<BR/>3). Some Providers hand out awards of Outstanding and Very Competent like Smarties, potentially undermining other Providers' efforts. Fortunately we can rely on our reputation but it does make one wonder whether some students simply look for the "easy" Course.<BR/>4). We should ask ourselves why the BSB doesn't police Providers' validated numbers more rigorously / at all. Allowing certain Providers to routinely exceed their numbers distorts the market and may very well have consequences in respect of student quality / satisfaction.<BR/>5). We score every application in respect of A levels, degree expected / attained, mini pupillages undertaken, experience of contested advocacy / public speaking etc. Convince me that an admissions test would better this and please explain your barrister sift to a barrister of >15 years' call - is it an interview, is it by committee or by 1 individual, what criteria would be employed etc.<BR/>Does this kickstart your debate?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com