Lord Neuberger has published his report and you can find it here.
Lots of proposals about the BVC and imposing a particular standard on all BVC providers. A suggestion that pupillage selection should be made by test rather than interview. Lots of support for getting out to schools (and I would support making all Chambers publish the steps they have taken to become involved in the community). An acknowledgment that if we want the brightest and the best (not always the same thing) to come to the Bar then we have to spread the net wider.
Neuberger also makes the point that the grading standards on the BVC (or at least some of them) offer little help to Chambers or the graduate. So, a hat tip to my anonymous correspondent who made the same point a while ago. Let no one say that this blog does not have its finger on the pulse of the profession.
Feel free to comment. In the meantime, what do we think (pace Anya in a comment below) of a pupil being told that they 'lack refinement'? Am I the only person cringing?
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I promised them - whaddya gonna do?
A Successful Get Away from the Judge...
It does what it says on the tin.
Contact
simon dot myerson at netserv dot net
I am told that spelling it this way prevents spam. Feel free to get in touch.
I am told that spelling it this way prevents spam. Feel free to get in touch.
Posts - The major posts are listed first. They are the meat of the site and are updated regularly.
- An Introduction
- The Mini Pupillage
- The Application
- The Interview
- If At First You Don't Succeed
- A Pause for Thought
- Final Speech
- An Excellent Prospect - Or Not
- All Beginnings Are Difficult
- Becoming a Solicitor First?
- Sermon
- The BVC - Infallible Tool, Necessary Evil or Total Crap?
- What Type of Law Should I Do? (Part 1)
- What Type of Law Should I Do? (Part 2)
- What Type of Law Should I Do? (Part 3)
- What Type of Law (Part 4)
- What Type of Judge Will I Get (Part 1)?
- What Type of Judge Will I Get (Part 2)?
- Some Issues for the New A-G
- M.A.s and Other Further Academic Degrees
- How Was It For You?
- The BVC - Again
- Countdown
- Blawgs
- BVC Redux
- The, "Does My
ArseEgo Look Big In This?" Competition - Deferral of Call
- New Term, New Beginnings
- What Is A Good University (at which to read Law)
- Poll Results
- Root and Branch
- Have You Got What It Takes?
- The Size of the Bar
- Mature Entrants
Links
- Bar or Bust (Another Hopeful enters the Lists and isn't frightened to express his/her views)
- Bloody Relations (Family Law knowledge Based - Good for Students)
- Ruthie's Law (Knowledge Based/Bizarre)
- Defending People: The Art and Science of Criminal Defence Trial Lawyering
- The Pupillage Chronicles
- The Ramblings of a Paranoid Pupil (Oxbridge Pupil in Commercial Set. Does the BVC work?)
- Publawyer (Knowledge Based)
- Liadnan (General)
- Legal Beagle (Barrister)
- John Bolch (Knowledge Based)
- Martin George (Knowledge Based)
- Nearly Legal (Student/Knowledge Based)
- Geeklawyer (Discursive)
- Charon QC (Discursive)
- Legal Lass (Student)
- Barrister 2 Be (Student)
- Josephine Blogs (Student)
- Law Minx (Student)
- Scholarships and Sponsorships
- Useful info about scholarships - from Solicitors to promote harmony (ah)
- Olpas - the boring but necessary bit
- Baili - Free Cases!
- N E Circuit
Your Chance to Express Yourself...
The Myersonettes
I promised them - whaddya gonna do?
I am a barrister practising on the North Eastern Circuit - which is obviously the best in the country. I was suitably prepared for life at the bar by the constant, grinding, ceaseless and unremitting study of law.
I graduated in 1984, married Nicole in 1987 and moved from London to Leeds at the same time. Since then I have developed some sort of a practice, had 4 children (all girls as you can see above. And is that a CUTE photo or what?) and put on 2 stone and (according to my family though I can't myself see it) another couple of chins. I feel that I now conform to the public ideal of my profession, although I don't recall being an evil parasite who is only interested in bankrupting the Treasury. I simply strive towards four weddings and a bankruptcy.
We have a dog called Sally who is an outstanding example of the Heinz breed.
For my sins I support Leeds United - if you are tempted to laugh just remember that I sit as a Recorder, so I can send you to prison. The consolation used to be that the rest of my family is bound to Middlesborough AFC, which conclusively proved that every cloud has a silver lining. Now Middlesborough have been in Europe (and there wasn't even a war) there is no consolation - no wonder people turn to religion.
In keeping with my commitment to modernity, the website is relaunched as a Blog - only about 2 years after blogs became what everyone has. For the legal profession this is lightening fast. Truthfully, the need for rebirth is because I forgot how to update the website, lost all the passwords and began to feel that the site was losing what relevance it had.
You are reading this because you want, you mad fool you, to be a barrister. There are no guarantees but this will, I hope, help. Field testing suggests that it does - hence the strapline above which Ronseal (who do not pay me) should take as a compliment. If they sue I will post an appeal for a fighting fund.
I have included some useful links below and some less than useful jokes below that. The excuse is that it is everyone's job to wring as much pleasure from life as they legitimately (important word that) can and thus there should be the minimum possible divide between business and pleasure...
About Me
A Successful Get Away from the Judge...
Barrister Jokes
Please do not crack these in interviews and expect to get a Pupillage.
What's the difference between God and a Barrister? God doesn't think He's a barrister.
What's the difference between a barrister and a broken watch? Neither of them work - but the watch is right twice a day.
What's the difference between a BVC student and a mobile phone? A mobile phone comes with a plan.
What's the difference between a pupil and a mushroom? No difference, they're both kept in the dark and have loads of shit shovelled on them.
How many barristers does it take to change a lightbulb? How many can you afford?
The Barrister wakes up after surgery and asks; 'why are the curtains drawn?' The nurse says, 'there's a fire across the street and we didn't want you to think the operation was a failure.'
Why can't barristers have sex with their clients? To prevent double billing.
What happens to a barrister when he takes viagra? He gets taller.
What's the difference between a barrister and a duck? Once in a while the duck will stick its bill up its arse.
Why do surgeons love barristers? Because they're easy to operate on: gutless, with no organs except lips and arseholes - and those are interchangeable.
Barrister chat up line? 'I'm a barrister. I'm trained to get you off'.
Why did the barrister cross the road? To sue the chicken.
How do you get 100 barristers in a Mini? You make 1 a High Court Judge and the other 99 will crawl up his arse.
What do you get when you cross a barrister with a demon from hell? A barrister.
What's the difference between a barrister and a trampoline? You take your shoes off to jump on a trampoline.
What's the difference between a cat and a barrister? One is an arrogant creature which will utterly ignore you unless you can do something for it. The other is a pet.
On holiday with their respective families Joe meets Max who he hasn't seen for years. 'What are you doing with yourself these days' he asks. 'I'm a barrister' whispers Max, 'but don't tell my wife. She thinks I'm still a pimp'.
What's the difference between a barrister and an onion? You cry when you cut up an onion.
A client comes to Chambers for a conference and is told that her barrister has died. The next day she comes back and asks to see that same barrister. The receptionist says 'He's dead and you know that. Why are you asking to see him?' The client replies, 'I just love hearing it'.
A pupil was sent to a far-away town to represent a long-term client accused of robbery. After 3 days he won the case and the client was acquitted. Excited about his success, the pupil texted his pupilmaster "Justice prevailed." The pupilmaster replied in haste: "Go back in and ask for permission to appeal."
A London Silk goes shooting in Yorkshire and kills a pheasant, which falls into a field on the other side of a fence. As he climbs the fence, an elderly gentleman asks him what he's doing. The Silk responds, “I shot a pheasant and it fell in this field, I’m going into retrieve it.” The old farmer replies, “This is my property, and tha's not coming in.” The indignant Silk says, “I am in Chamber's Guide and the Legal 500. If you don’t let me get the pheasant, I’ll sue you!" The farmer smiles and says, “Tha' don’t know how we do things 'ere in Yorkshire. We settle disagreements like this wit' Three-Kick Rule.” The Silk asks, “What's that?" The Farmer replies “Fust I kick thee three times, then tha kicks me three times, and so on, back and forth, until one of us gives up.” The Silk quickly decides that he can easily take the old farmer and agrees. The farmer slowly walks up to the Silk. His first kick plants his heavy work boot into the Silk’s groin and drops him to his knees. His second kick nearly wipes the man’s nose off his face. The Silk is flat on his belly when the farmer’s third kick to a kidney nearly causes him to give up. But he summons every bit of his will power and manages to get to his feet and say, “Okay, you old bastard, now it’s my turn.” The old farmer smiles and says, “Nay lad, I give up. Tha can have t'pheasant.”
What's the difference between God and a Barrister? God doesn't think He's a barrister.
What's the difference between a barrister and a broken watch? Neither of them work - but the watch is right twice a day.
What's the difference between a BVC student and a mobile phone? A mobile phone comes with a plan.
What's the difference between a pupil and a mushroom? No difference, they're both kept in the dark and have loads of shit shovelled on them.
How many barristers does it take to change a lightbulb? How many can you afford?
The Barrister wakes up after surgery and asks; 'why are the curtains drawn?' The nurse says, 'there's a fire across the street and we didn't want you to think the operation was a failure.'
Why can't barristers have sex with their clients? To prevent double billing.
What happens to a barrister when he takes viagra? He gets taller.
What's the difference between a barrister and a duck? Once in a while the duck will stick its bill up its arse.
Why do surgeons love barristers? Because they're easy to operate on: gutless, with no organs except lips and arseholes - and those are interchangeable.
Barrister chat up line? 'I'm a barrister. I'm trained to get you off'.
Why did the barrister cross the road? To sue the chicken.
How do you get 100 barristers in a Mini? You make 1 a High Court Judge and the other 99 will crawl up his arse.
What do you get when you cross a barrister with a demon from hell? A barrister.
What's the difference between a barrister and a trampoline? You take your shoes off to jump on a trampoline.
What's the difference between a cat and a barrister? One is an arrogant creature which will utterly ignore you unless you can do something for it. The other is a pet.
On holiday with their respective families Joe meets Max who he hasn't seen for years. 'What are you doing with yourself these days' he asks. 'I'm a barrister' whispers Max, 'but don't tell my wife. She thinks I'm still a pimp'.
What's the difference between a barrister and an onion? You cry when you cut up an onion.
A client comes to Chambers for a conference and is told that her barrister has died. The next day she comes back and asks to see that same barrister. The receptionist says 'He's dead and you know that. Why are you asking to see him?' The client replies, 'I just love hearing it'.
A pupil was sent to a far-away town to represent a long-term client accused of robbery. After 3 days he won the case and the client was acquitted. Excited about his success, the pupil texted his pupilmaster "Justice prevailed." The pupilmaster replied in haste: "Go back in and ask for permission to appeal."
A London Silk goes shooting in Yorkshire and kills a pheasant, which falls into a field on the other side of a fence. As he climbs the fence, an elderly gentleman asks him what he's doing. The Silk responds, “I shot a pheasant and it fell in this field, I’m going into retrieve it.” The old farmer replies, “This is my property, and tha's not coming in.” The indignant Silk says, “I am in Chamber's Guide and the Legal 500. If you don’t let me get the pheasant, I’ll sue you!" The farmer smiles and says, “Tha' don’t know how we do things 'ere in Yorkshire. We settle disagreements like this wit' Three-Kick Rule.” The Silk asks, “What's that?" The Farmer replies “Fust I kick thee three times, then tha kicks me three times, and so on, back and forth, until one of us gives up.” The Silk quickly decides that he can easily take the old farmer and agrees. The farmer slowly walks up to the Silk. His first kick plants his heavy work boot into the Silk’s groin and drops him to his knees. His second kick nearly wipes the man’s nose off his face. The Silk is flat on his belly when the farmer’s third kick to a kidney nearly causes him to give up. But he summons every bit of his will power and manages to get to his feet and say, “Okay, you old bastard, now it’s my turn.” The old farmer smiles and says, “Nay lad, I give up. Tha can have t'pheasant.”
Count the Omer
And Counting...
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8 comments:
The only good thing I have to say about that comment is at least Anya was told it directly to her face. Since this person said it to Anya directly it unfortunately means this person doesn't realise what a prat he sounds like. I dearly hope this isnt a Pupil Supervisor.
What does the person exactly mean? It is as abstract as saying X won’t fit into Chambers. If the knives are out for a pupil people will use such baseless terminology.
I have personal experience of this. In my first Chambers someone showed me my pupillage report (he shouldn’t of done and I shouldn’t have looked but I couldn’t resist looking in Pandora's Box). I still have it:
TB has received much praise from solicitors and clerks for my work in my second six, TB also received a lot of praise for the standard of paperwork that he has done for other member of Chambers. TB is undoubtedly the better lawyer than the other pupil. However, there have been comments about TB's tardiness and not looking smart enough. There also is a fear that TB wouldn’t fit into Chambers and it is for that reason why the recommendation is TB should not be offered tenancy.
Needless to say when I was shown it I was deeply hurt; a years worht of hard work was explored in only 200 words. I upset the person who wrote this report on me (for the most trivial if reasons) and ever since she tried in any which way to scupper my chances of tenancy. Three years later this person turned around and said to me "I am so glad I voted for you being a tenant." A person on the pupillage committee (who is now a very good friend of mine) said to me if I had played the game properly I should have been a “shoe in”. He also told me if I interacted with other members of Chambers in the same way I did when a tenant I would have not have had a problem getting tenancy.
The Anya comments I find vulgar. It is symptomatic of in my experience how too many Barristers judge pupils on how well they get on with other members of Chambers ("brown nose") and not how good a Barrister they might become. A comment that once got back to about a pupil was this person was brilliant “at playing the game.”
There is more than one style in being able to interact well with your clients. Establishing a rapport with you client is so important and I certainly don’t think you will establish this if you remain aloof; the aloof style is the one style not to have.
Phew my rant over.
TB,
Entirely agree. I think that this issue is about the need of some barristers to feel comfortable socially. Either they are simply incapable of surviving in the unsheltered world which lies outside the doors of their school, college and Inn, or - having aspired and perspired to achieve a particular 'position' - they cannot cope with seeing all their effort negatived by someone who achieves the same 'position' without equivalent aspiration and perspiration.
However good such people are (and the odds are that it's not that good) I believe the profession is better off without them. Even if they are a genuine star they put off good entrants to the profession - so produce an ultimate losing position for us all.
Moreover, it is simply a horrible thing to say. I completely agree with you that what marks such comments out is their abstraction - it is impossible to remedy anything based on such a comment and the comment is not meant to afford a chance of a remedy. So the person who said it is a shit. If by any chance they are reading this they should go and apologise.
Please excuse the possible rudeness of my question, but i need to know if i am going to commit myself to a considerable amount of debt whether the pecuniary interests at the end of it will be worth it. I want, more than anything, to become a barrister but with all the research i have done i am yet to find any information on what one is paid.
I am of course aware of the autonomous you get paid when you work and not when you don't nature of the profession.
Just how much will i make as a Barrister in and around Leeds (where i would like to live)?
I am truly cheered that there are at least two barristers out there who don't think the person who said that to me was right to do so. Certainly I have never in my life been pulled up on my behaviour/communication skills and had previously prided myself on my ability to relate to others. I have now been made to feel like a liability in social situations and am afraid to interact with other members of chambers in case they too see that I am "unrefined". To be frank I did find the person who said this to me, who is a Very Important Person in relation to my tenancy decision, rather pompous when I first met him...but he can be, he has tenancy. I have had a different upbringing to those in chambers and although it is "their problem" if they can't relate to that, realistically it is MY problem. I DO want tenancy at this chambers because I don't feel that it is the only chambers like this, I did a mini here and thought it was a nicer chambers than others, so who knows what lies behind the doors of other chambers? Indeed, a good friend of mine has been subject to blatant racist insults by her pupil master elsewhere...like me, she is loathe to do anything to imperil her tenancy prospects by causing a fuss. Chambers hold all the cards -that is the reality and we have no choice but to accept it in our own interests. Thank you both so much for your support, it is very much appreciated.
Anya,
I am sure you are best placed to decide whether Chambers is nice or not, but I would have thought that if you are right on this, there would be someone exercising authority (real or via their personality) to whom you could complain about this.
As for your friend - if she would like to contact me direct (i.e. not via the site) I shall do my level best to ensure that whoever insulted her has no say in her tenancy decision and is treated appropriately by the BSB. Racism is unacceptable. Period. When my Dad went to the Bar in 1953 there was only one set in Leeds who would take a Jew. The lesson of those times - for me - is that sucking up to the antisemites doesn't work and insisting on equal treatment does.
That needs the victims to come forward. At least if your frined contacts me she will have told someone and I won't do anything without her ok. Please ask her.
Anon it is hard to give you a proper answer to this question since remuneration will largely depend on both the area of law you wish to specialise in and what Chambers you join (see SM's post on what type of law should I do).
All I can say is I am in a junior tenant in a civil common law set of Chambers and find my solicitor friends working in magic circle firms earn considerably less than I do. I wouldnt have thought there would be many half decent sets where a tenant fresh out of pupillage isnt earning at least 40k per year.
Anya dont be too worried about interacting with tenants during pupillage. In pupillage I became utterly paranoid that everything I said to tenants might damage my prospects of tenancy; after becoming a tenant I learnt the truth is what you perceive you said as being significant a pupil is very seldom in reality significant. I became too introverted as a result and it damaged my prospects of tenancy.
This "very important person" sounds like an absolute idiot. You might find in reality he isnt as important as you think he is or he thinks he is. The lady who tried to scupper my chances of tenancy thought she was very important and at the time of my pupillage I thought she was important, subsequently I learned many of the more influential members of chambers disregarded everything she said about me as being baseless.
Easier said than done I know, but dont let morons get to you. What is refined or unrefined? If the Bar is to survive it is vital we arent seen as some kind of elitist old boys club. You may well come to the conclusion this is not the right set for you and with this behaviour it might be an idea to start looking around for other sets to do your second six. You may come to another conclusion that you should try to get tenancy at this set and try to move as quickly as possible after. Unfortunately, you are right he is in the position of power over you and is clearly abusing that position (this makes it all the worse). The fact he is a tenant does not excuse his actions in any way and it is his problem and not your problem. You will be amazed how this persons attitude to you will likely change if you get tenancy.
A pupil master being racist is clearly an even bigger idiot, I can sympathise with your friend for not wanting to rock the boat. I wont lie and pretend if she complains about it will certainly have no effect on her tenancy prospects, it may do but it may not. Does your friend though want to be in a set which has that type of person as a pupil master? Such things cant be allowed to go unchallenged.
Try not to forget what life was like as a pupil once you are a tenant.
I must admit I do feel a little resentful and fear that IF I were to be awarded tenancy I might carry that resentment with me even as a tenant...but if I were to be awarded tenancy and then sought it somewhere else instead that would be both an enormous and perhaps stupid risk and I worry that I might be blacklisted not just by my set but by others too...As for the racism, the situation is complicated by the fact that the master involved has a son-in-law of the same race as my friend and by all accounts gets on extremely well with him, such that she might not be taken seriously if she complained but she feels uncomfortable at the way in which her master seems to consider all of her actions, positive and negative, as referable to her race. She has struggled long and hard to get a pupillage and certainly doesn't want to rock the boat, though in the event of her not getting tenancy you never know...
As for not forgetting what life was like as a pupil - I will NEVER forget, though I think my propensity to empathise with people is part of what my master sees as my problem - no doubt associating with the pupils too closely next year would be viewed as inappropriate behaviour on my part...
About applying elsewhere - all I can say is I was unhappy and rather than moaning applied elsewhere, it was undoubtably the best decision I have ever made (much better than bitching to other members of chambers about being unhappy). I think you are just plain wrong in thinking you will be black listed/shunned, I still have many good friends in my old set. The old days have gone where barristers were expected to be in one set for the rest of their life.
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